Gönderen Konu: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots  (Okunma sayısı 14181 defa)

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The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« : 25 Ocak 2008, 21:39:03 »
Finno-Ugrian Theory
The most widely accepted theory of the Magyar's origin is the Finno-Ugrian concept. Advocates of this theory believe the linguistic and ethnic kinship between the Hungarians and the Finns, Esthonians, Ostyaks and Voguls provide evidence for the origin of the Magyars. This relation of the Magyars with the Finns places the ancient homeland of the Finno-Ugrians on both sides of the southern Ural Mountains. The advocates of this theory insist that Magyars came from this group in the Urals, and as the theory explains, it was about 2000 B.C. that the Finnish branch broke away to settle in the Baltic area. The Magyars remained on the West Siberian steppes with the other Ugrian peoples until 500 B.C. It was then that the Magyars crossed the Urals westward to settle in what is present day Soviet Bashkiria, north of the Black Sea and the Caucasus. The Magyars remained here for centuries with the various Ural-Altaic peoples such as the Huns, Turkic Bulgars, Alans and Onogurs. The Magyars soon adopted many cultural traits and customs of these people and it was from the region of Soviet Bashkiria that the Magyars started their migration westward toward the Carpathians.

After World War II, the Finno-Ugrian theory was challenged by scholars who argued that the Finno-Ugrian theory was based on linguistics alone, without support in anthropology, archeology or written records.

Orientalist Theory
Scholars known as orientalists believe that the origin of Magyars and their language is not found in the Urals, but in Central Asia known as the Turanian Plain or Soviet Turkestan which stretches from the Caspian Sea eastward to Lake Balchas. Ancient history has traditionally called this region Scythia. Folklore holds that the Magyars are related to the Scythians who built the great empire of the 5th century B.C. After the Scythian empire dissolved, the Turanian Plain witnessed the rise and fall of empires built between the first and ninth centuries A.D. by the Huns, Avars, Khazars and various Turkic peoples, including the Uygurs. The Magyars subsequently absorbed much of the culture and tradition of these peoples and many Onogur, Sabir, Turkic, and Ugrian people were assimilated with the Magyars, resulting in the Magyar amalgam, which entered the Carpathian Basin in the later half of the ninth century A.D.

Scholars of Far Eastern history believe that the Magyars were also exposed to the Sumerian culture in the Turanian Plain. Linguists of the 19th century, including Henry C. Rawlinson, Jules Oppert, Eduard Sayous and Francois Lenormant found that knowledge of the Ural-Altaic languages such as Magyar, helps to decipher Sumerian writings. Cuneiform writing was found to be used by the Magyars long before they entered the Carpathian Basin. The similarity of the two languages has led orientalists to form a Sumerian-Hungarian connection. The orientalists speculate that a reverse of the Finno-Ugrian theory may be possible. The theory holds that if the proto-Magyars were neighbors of the proto-Sumerians in the Turanian Plain, then the evolution of the Hungarian language must have been a result of Sumerian rather than Finno-Ugrian influences. The theory in turn holds that rather than being the recipients of a Finno-Ugrian language, it was the Magyars who imparted their language to the Finns and Estonians without being ethnically related to them. What scholars site for added evidence for this theory is the fact that the Magyars have always been numerically stronger than their Finno-Ugrian neighbors combined. The theory believes that the Finns and Ugors received linguistic strains from a Magyar branch who had broken away from the main body on the Turanian Plan, and migrated to West Siberia.

 
The Magyar-Uygur Theory
The connection between the Magyars and the Uygurs tie Hungarians even closer to Asia. The Uygurs are people who live in the Xinjiang province of China. The Uygurs are Caucasian in appearance and maintain a Turkic language. To the north of the Uygar's border stretches the Dzungarian Basin which has a striking similarity to the word Hungarian. Northeast of the Dzungaria lies the Altai Mountain Range, a name used by linguists to define the Ural-Altaic language group to which the Magyar language belongs. Further up to the north stretches the Lake Baykal region where first the Scythians, then the Huns emerged to conquer the Turanian Plain. The Magyars, Uygurs and the Turks may also have started their migrations from the northeastern part of the Baykal area.

Further anthropological, archeological and linguistic research must be conducted on this theory, but is limited by the little access the Chinese government grants foreigners to the region. There are, however, many Asiatic influences seen among Hungarians today. Hungarian legends and folk tales are strikingly similar to those of Asian peoples. The structure of Magyar folk music, which uses the pentatonic scale, also points to Asian origins. The beautiful gates of the Székely people in Transylvania bear a strong resemblance to those in the pagodas of China (Marka Ragnos, maybe the answer of your question under the thread "Magyar's bad behaviour"?). The ornate tombstones carved from wood are also similar to those seen in Chinese cemeteries. The Hungarian cuisine shows traces of Asia in its use of strong spices such as paprika, pepper, saffron, and ginger.




Which one do you think to be the most possible one? I think they all could be true. 1 and 3 are the most possible ones, some Hungarian scholars even went to Uyghuristan to look for their people's roots (during Communist era); they had told that they founded many similarities. And of course with Finns, the linguistic connections between the both Nations cannot be denied, it's told to look like each other as much as German looks like to English; in spite, during the last 1000 years, you see pretty no connection between these people.
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Ynt: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« Yanıtla #1 : 26 Ocak 2008, 00:15:42 »
Well, genetically Finns have much connections only with Szekelys in that area.

And about second theory: Finnish-Sumerian conection was found here in 1800s already, but our swecomanic intellectuals banned that totally. :x

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Ynt: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« Yanıtla #2 : 26 Ocak 2008, 00:32:46 »
Anda,
I believe in the Uyghur-Magyar (and maybe, Finn) connection. About Sumerians, I think the ones who supported that theory were rather indo-europeanist, at least basically. I don't know how Sumerians are Indo-European, it has already been proved that their language has no connection with indo-european languages.

Abraham, that jews claim as their's is also told to be Sumerian and not jew. I remember you told he was Gutian. By the way, what does Gutian mean for you? I have no idea about that word.
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Ynt: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« Yanıtla #3 : 26 Ocak 2008, 16:45:37 »
Sumerian grammatical is agglunative, so similar like in Uralic and Altaic languages. And there is hundreds similar words in Sumeri-Turkic languages and also Sumeri-Finnic languages.

Abraham was from Mesopotamia according bible (I guess that quran tells same story).

Well, Sumerians were civilized and advanced people. They had city-states and whole area was in order. However, Sumerians made same mistake what has always ruined nations. Sumerians could not understood that gutians who came there from north that they would occupy and destroy whole  Sumer one day.

Gutians ruined whole country and then also semites started to come there.

Gutians have lived in north of Sumer of ages. There is so many similar connections with jews and kurds, and it is known that kurds are descendants of gutians. Also gipsies and armenians have alot of that blood. And naturally all kurdish related-nations have too. So those people are gutians. Their ancestors were savages and ruiners of other nations, so they are naturally thatkind of people too.


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Ynt: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« Yanıtla #4 : 26 Ocak 2008, 21:58:20 »
I don't think Quran tells that Abraham was mesopotamian. I'll ask this question to a theologist to clarify my ideas about Abraham's roots. Jewish religion tells that he was jew. I know that Quran doesn't say he was jewish. He lived in mesopotamia, it has always been a mixed area.
I know that Muhammed told that himself was descendent of Abraham, if abraham was jew, was he jew too? I don't think it's possible.
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Ynt: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« Yanıtla #5 : 26 Ocak 2008, 22:24:05 »
Actually bible does not say that Abraham was jew.

He had first son Ismael, who was according bible father of Arabs. Then he got Isaac. Isaac had two sons: Esau and Jacob. Esau got name Edom and Jacob got name Israel. Later Abraham got other sons, for example father of Midianians.


So, Abraham was not jew, just one of their ancestors. :wink:

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Re: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« Yanıtla #6 : 26 Ocak 2008, 22:42:33 »
Thanks for the info Anda;
I don't think they all could be true as reliable information. Today among Arabs, you've white ones and black ones. It's the same case for the evil jewish.
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Ynt: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« Yanıtla #7 : 26 Ocak 2008, 23:20:52 »
Actually bible and quran are not history books, so in historical questions they are not reliable. :wink:

Only some things of both of those are historical facts. :wink:

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Ynt: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« Yanıtla #8 : 28 Ocak 2008, 22:22:43 »
The Magyars were an Ugric people, who mixed with ome Turkic peoples on their way to Pannonia, and than also got mixed with the German settlers during the Habsburg period.

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Ynt: The 3 theories about Magyars' roots
« Yanıtla #9 : 28 Ocak 2008, 22:48:42 »
The Magyars were an Ugric people, who mixed with ome Turkic peoples on their way to Pannonia, and than also got mixed with the German settlers during the Habsburg period.

Which one among these different roots of these people is the strongest one, oppress the others? I think, as already told, it changes from one Area to another area. For instance, Budapest is told to be very mixed, that is not the case or less for the East, where you can see many Kipchak-Cuman folks, also in Romania.
Swords shine, Wolves guide,
Our horses were our brothers.
We destroyed together legions of Rome
We invaded Anatolia, we called it home

Our Culture is nature,
Our Religion is Sky.